Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I hung on to this like to the Titanic as it's like going down into the water for the last time. And I'm gonna have no regrets because I know I did everything I could to try to save this paper.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

If you wanna hear about Saint Louis, tune into the Bucket List show weekly. Hear what Marissa and Luke say. It drops every Wednesday, got a dope new guest every single week. Buckle up for the ride. Who's it gonna be? Who's on the show today? They rap Saint Louis. What to do in the loo on a late night?

Meet Sarah Fenske

SPEAKER_00 0:37

I baby what to do on a date night. Yeah. Bucket list as you covered, they know what's going on. What's going on? They'll give you. Hey, 18 different things to do on 19. If you need one more to choose, yeah. The city, city, city is a place we call home. A place we call home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

St. Louis, welcome back to the STL Bucket List show. I am your host, Luke Farrell of STL Bucket List. We've been doing this show since 2022. We have over 210 episodes highlighting the people,

Getting Into Journalism

SPEAKER_05 1:04

places, and events that make St. Louis special. Have one of those people in the studio today. I read her newsletter every single morning. I'm huge fans of the work that you guys do at St. Louis Magazine. But I've been a fan of you before St. Louis Magazine. So we have Sarah Finski in the studio today, uh, journalist, podcaster, email newsletter writer, um, influencer, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

Oh no, not influencer.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

Not influencer, kind of. Um but I've seen you speak like at the Explore St. Louis, I've seen you moderate all these things, I've seen you have these like conversations, and really I'm inspired by the work that you guys do. And when we got into the traditional newsletter or when we got into the print magazine, I think I ran into you that same week at the Explore St. Louis conference, and you were like, Oh, congratulations! Like, you know, and finally we're getting on the podcast. So I'm excited about that. But I want to learn a little bit more about your story because you've had a lot of different journeys in your life. Um, has has journalism and writing always been your biggest passion, or were there other things before that?

SPEAKER_04 1:56

By the time I became an adult, it was journalism all the way. Like I did not go to school for journalism. I I didn't go to a place that had a journalism school, but I kind of fell into it writing for the campus newspaper, um, ended up the editor of the campus newspaper. And then I was just hooked for life. Like I was like, why would I pay for grad school when I could get paid, however pitifully, to do this thing that is just so fun? Like I literally fell in love with it. It has been a very destructive force in my life because uh, you know, it kind of interferes with all other loves and normal life that you could have. Cause it's like, it's a really intense job. It's frankly a hard job to keep these days. Um, but it is the most fun job you could ever have. And I'm sure you're you're seeing this in your much younger career. It's just like, how would you want to do anything else after you've

Media Then vs Now

SPEAKER_04 2:47

gotten a chance to do this?

SPEAKER_05 2:48

I know, and telling stories, and like obviously you tell real tough stories sometimes, and but you also tell fun stories, and you also like your newsletter kind of has a little bit of all of that that I that I get to read in those bite-sized parts. And then, you know, but I guess the journey of journal of journalism has changed so much since your career. So, like from when you originally started to now, like what are some of those things that you think have changed maybe for the better or maybe for the worse? Because I think it's been a lot of different. I mean, you've been through all the hardest times as a journalist.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

I'm kind of, I feel like I'm the end of I'm like the last person who's hung on from the old era where you know, the editor I had when I managed to like sort of talk my way into an internship, when again, I didn't have a journalism major, um, you know, he said, Oh, well, your path is very clear. He said, You go work at a small daily newspaper somewhere horrible, and they will work you so hard and you'll be there for two years. And if you can like get somebody indicted or like write this big series, then you can go work for a major metropolitan daily newspaper, and that'll be the rest of your life. Like the goal was to end up at a place like the Post Dispatch. Yeah. And they would pay people like a nice middle class salary.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

You could just be there forever, have a union protection, just work your beat every day. That was all I ever wanted. Not specifically St. Louis, but any place like St. Louis. I was it was a great big world out there. I wanted to live somewhere other than where I grew up. And what I

Journalism Career Paths

SPEAKER_04 4:10

found, I went, tried to follow that advice. I worked for a daily newspaper for two years and got the mayor indicted, wrote the big project. And then I go to apply to the major metropolitan newspaper, and they're like, yeah, we've never done this before, but we actually just instituted a hiring freeze. And that was the first of the hiring freezes that have basically not stopped since that era, which was the early aughts. And that career path no longer exists. You know, these days, if you get in at a place like the Post Dispatch, you're getting in right out of college because you're cheap. They're gonna work you hard for a couple of years. You might do really good work, you might stay longer than that. There's certainly been some people who've been talented enough to do that. But mainly you're gonna do that for four or five years. You're gonna go get a job in PR because that's where you're meant to spend your career. And so I've been kind of like uh, you know, I've had an unusual path of just kind of jumping around, but I've been able to kind of make it under the old system where you've got that sort of rigorous training of you have to go cover the suburban planning commission and you kind of learn the nuts and bolts of government. And from there you can get a job where you can do the more feature type stories and start to go bigger and broader. And I've been really lucky to have that career. But in the time that I've had that career, everything around me has changed. The models no longer exist. So many things have become focused on uh digital metrics, page views, time on site, things that were unthinkable when I was first coming up. I remember the first time I pulled up a website to read the news. Uh, Newsweek had just broken the story that uh there was this intern that the president had gotten involved with. Really?

SPEAKER_05 5:49

That was the first time I was like, The first internet article you ever read? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:52

I'd never been on the internet before that. I was like, I gotta figure this out. And I was like fascinated by that story and became obsessed with that story. And I think one of the reasons I've had the luck I've had in my career is that I was always like attracted to the internet and like the power that it had to break stories in real time and to get past these old school gatekeeper. Um, you know, I'm realizing

Rise of Digital Media

SPEAKER_04 6:12

I'm telling this story badly. It wasn't that Newsweek had the story. Newsweek had spiked the story. The Drudge Report broke the story. That was the first thing. Yeah, they put it online. And so, you know, I c I came of age, even as I had hoped to build this career under the old model, I had great appreciation and zest for the new model.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

And so, you know, I've spent a lot of my career in alt weeklies, but at the same time, these have been altweeklies that have been obsessed with trying to get as many online readers as possible, maximizing those online page views. So I've kind of lived through a couple different eras.

SPEAKER_05 6:44

And working closely with like, because that's where the advertising model and you're on the writing, you're on the journalism model. So it's it's so different. So I guess how did you end up in St. Louis? What was that first job that you took? And like, what did you think when you ended up here?

SPEAKER_04 6:55

Oh man, yeah, that was wild. So this was I had been a newspaper reporter and I'd been a columnist, and I started realizing there were no longer full-time columnist jobs. Like nobody wanted to hire me to gaze at my navel once a week. Yeah. You know, that was not a salaried position.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:12

Um, so I threw my hat in the ring uh to become an editor. And the company there would just move editors around the country to get trained. You'd be like a mid-level editor at one of their papers. That company owned the Riverfront Times. And this was like four ownership groups ago. Um, and they moved me here. I initially did not want to move here. I had zero desire to be back in the Midwest. I loved being out west. I'd been living in Arizona in Phoenix. Um and when they first sent me out here, I took a look around St. Louis and I turned down the job. And then they sort of talked me into, they were like, you know, there really might not be a columnist job back in Phoenix. You you sure you want to turn down this job.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

So I ended up coming here. Um, and I ended up just loving it. Like I had such a great time here. St. Louis, I think, was just this. At that time, it was a little more of like a wild city. It felt like there were no rules. Yeah. That was very appealing to me at that time in my life. Um, I think the paper at that time had some talented people, but it was misaligned with the corporate office. So there was a chance to do some really interesting stuff, kind of change things, mix things up. Really enjoyed that. Well, so they ended up transferring me then to be the editor-in-chief of their paper in Los Angeles, which I was never gonna turn down. I went out there. The problem is in the one year and a couple months I'd lived in St. Louis, and

Moving to St. Louis

SPEAKER_04 8:33

it's the classic story. Like these St. Louis men, they just they put them out into the universe and they're like magnets to get you to draw people back to town. Yeah. So I spent I'm glad that that happened. Yeah. So I spent three years out in LA, and my now husband ended up moving out there. And um, but he just always wanted to come back here. And so yeah, it made sense when my job there kind of fell apart. It was like, where do we want to go? And I was like, I loved St. Louis. Let's go to St. Louis and just figure things out from there.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

And then you landed right back at the river, you got transferred to the riverfront.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Well, no, it was more complicated. What happened is things had were falling apart with the company that had been moving me around the country. And I had sort of quit the job in LA because I didn't want to lay off a bunch of people. Right. And I moved back to the river, moved back to St. Louis right at the time that they were selling the Riverfront Times. And the new owners were like, hey, we heard there's this unemployed, super experienced altweekly editor living in town. Would you want to come back and run this thing? And it was like a lifesaver. I had spent a couple months just not knowing what to do. And I was working for feast and just not sure. Like, I was like, this isn't what I want to be doing. They threw me this life preserver that I grabbed and I was just all in on like, let's fix the RFT. It was like this close to closing. Really? Yeah. And so we pulled together this team where I think it ended up being one of the good

Falling for STL

SPEAKER_04 9:53

eras of that paper. And it was just, it was tremendous.

SPEAKER_05 9:57

Yeah. People talk about it like my parents, like um, I'm 30, so I know the RFT mostly from like the 2000, like when I became like a 20 adult, like in 2016. But it was more That was my era.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I took over in 2015. Okay, so that's the one I know. That's that era.

SPEAKER_05 10:12

So that was when I was 2021, where I was going to live shows a lot and I was reading the back of all the live shows, and then I knew some of the freelancers that covered the musicians. And then I always loved the artwork of the magazine, but I was reading online. Yeah. Because you know. And most of our readers were. Yeah. So I was reading online, and then, you know, I loved sauce because I love food. And then we started STL Bucket List in 2019 and really just started going all in on Instagram and social media. And that's like Ben Arlane. So like I got inspiration from how you guys told stories, but like we know that we're not, even with sauce, like we're not telling those stories. We're just telling stories of food, dining, and it's all positive. We that's what we do with sauce. But I love the stories of you know, the business journal. I I read that every day. I'm a member of the business journal, and I still love the post-dispatch because they still tell these stories, and then I read your guys' stuff all the time. And you guys have now with St. Louis Mag, you've evolved into all these different things. But so from 2015, how long was that runway with Riverfront Times then?

SPEAKER_04 11:10

Yeah, so I was

Riverfront Times Era

SPEAKER_04 11:11

there for four years as editor-in-chief.

SPEAKER_05 11:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:14

And then I left that job to go uh host St. Louis on the Year on St. Louis Public Radio. And I will say, uh, it wasn't fully clear to me at that point, the four years that I was editor-in-chief. I think that was kind of like a little golden era in that we were online a lot, we were getting the page views. It was not yet clear to advertisers that they just wanted like Instagram campaigns and all this kind of stuff. But by the time I came back to the RFT after having a couple years at public radio um working for their corporate office, trying to help with multiple newspapers, I think places like you had really kind of changed the paradigm. And suddenly advertisers weren't like wanting an ad on the website. They wanted a banner ad, yeah. Yeah. Things had really shifted, and that was a whole new era. And you were probably responsible for part of that. Thanks.

SPEAKER_05 12:03

Yeah, no, I know. And that's what I tell like young journalists that apply. Like, we get a lot of people from the School of Journalism at Mizzou that want to come work for Sauce or they want to come do this. And I'm like, honestly, guys, like a lot of people went to the journalism school, but they're in social media now, they're in video short form creation where they're reporting from their phone, and like a lot of them don't even you don't even need a job. Like you can do your own thing. There's a lot of opportunity, kind of you do need one to do legit, but like some of them are like I like sports and stuff, and like there's a lot of sports journalists that are just talking on their own shows and they have their own things and like, but then they get acquired by these other big ones like Barstool or all these other things that they have, but like it's just changed so much. And I grew up in the digital, like I grew up with social media, so it's just different. But like now that I'm reading these, like they just dropped off our magazines today. Like, it feels so good to just grab the physical magazine and they just dropped it off. Like our April issue just came in today. And First Community Credit Union is the official banking partner of STL Bucketless. They've been serving St. Louis families for 90 plus years with 40 plus local branches and over 400,000 members from personal credit loans to mortgages

Public Radio Transition

SPEAKER_05 13:04

to kids and teen accounts. They also have a partnership with the STL Blues. You see Louie here if you're watching on YouTube. Uh, we're proud to use First Community. I use it for my own family and my own business. Um, we're excited for them to be the official banking partner of STL Bucket list. So I guess the Riverfront Times, so like you worked there, you left for a little bit, you came back. Tell me like that moment that it sold and then it was over. Like, what did you feel in your mind at that moment? Because I'm sure that was devastating for you for how much work that you put in.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Honestly, at that point, um, it was almost a relief. Like the last couple months of the RFT were so hard. And I knew terrible things behind the scenes, and I was so worried and so heart sick, and all

Media Evolution

SPEAKER_04 13:47

I could think about was like, I've got this team of reporters. And you know, in one case, I had this married couple who just had a baby. They both worked there, and I knew there was the chance that like there wasn't gonna be a buyer, that this thing couldn't be saved. And it was just, it was the worst two months of my life. And so that morning when I came in and I I legit thought I was gonna be laid off, and I was I was ready for that, and I was sad about it, but I was like, okay, there can maybe be this smaller, leaner thing. I've done everything I can do to try to save this era of the RFT. And to learn that then it was over, that there was nothing that could be done. None of us had jobs. It was horrible. I felt so bad for all my colleagues, but for me personally, I was like, wow, well, I know I did everything. I hung on to this, like to the Titanic, as it's like going down into the water for the last time. And I'm gonna have no regrets because I know I did everything I could to try to save this paper. And what was the silver lining of what was a really tough week was the strange thing was that everybody was okay. Like I was so like, how are people gonna eat? And people were snapped up so quickly. And even the people who weren't able to land a job in journalism,

End of Riverfront Times

SPEAKER_04 15:02

um, they were able, they were fine. And so I think you kind of you prepare for the worst and you think there is no life outside of this boat that you're on that's sinking. And the crazy thing, maybe it's just partly St. Louis, where things are so affordable and we all have such a good network. But life, life rafts came by and picked up every last person.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:22

And so it was the worst two months of my life. And then the week that followed was just crazy. I mean, just the outpouring of support from the community because that paper had meant so much to so many people that was almost validating for how hard we fought. And it was just less about what am I gonna do next? It was more like, is there even journalism like going forward? Like what even happens? It was just, it was just this very strange, you know, just kind of sitting on this life rap thinking, where what uh what deserted beach am I gonna wash up on?

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Yeah, and all this media is trying to get you to get on the radio and talk about it. Yeah. All these news stories. Because I remember you were like a key media person in like telling that story, but like it's almost like ripping the band-aid off to a fact of it's over, like it's done. There, like, because then you don't have to save this thing anymore. You just kind of let it go. And and I think that closing chapters and finishing things are rewarding because it's like you still have those archives, you still have those memories, and then all those connections and all those people that you met. Um, so how long was the gap between when you guys, when you got laid off there, and then what made you kind of decide to take that? Like, were you done? Or were like, because I thought you were like, I mean, I I didn't know you then, but I was like, oh, like maybe it's just an opportunity to just do something else or like go work and do something else that's you know, so like what made you make that jump into kind of St. Louis magazine? Because St. Louis Magazine at the time was way different, and like they took a chance on all you guys to bring you in and built, they built something around you. They did.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

They yeah, that was that was amazing that they had, I guess, the vision to want to try that, you know, whether or not it ends up working in the long run. Like they saw this thing that would make it work. I, you know, I think my husband was really like, okay, you know, your phone's ringing off the hook, all these people that are work for these nice, great corporate jobs. This is time for you to grow up. Yeah. And I was I was very tempted by that. And I think because my firing was so public, there were opportunities coming my way that would normally never come your way. And you kind of like were a free agent and you're like, I can pick and choose now. You can do anything.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Yeah.

After the Collapse

SPEAKER_04 17:19

Um, but I think that because the end of the RFT was so hard and so just it just felt so ugly and unsatisfying in that final year, to be honest, maybe even the final two years for me, that I thought I don't want to go out this way. I have loved journalism so much. Do I really want to go out with this bad taste in my mouth of like what felt like a situation that had given me PTSD? I thought, I think I have one last journalism job in me. I want to go out with my head held high and just see if I can do something. If I'm not trying to like manage decline and chaos, can I again do good work? And I, as I was starting to have that thought, that's kind of when uh, you know, to mix my metaphor, like the rescue ship sailed up.

SPEAKER_03 18:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:05

Um, and yeah, I think, you know, I had known the owner of St. Louis Magazine prior to that, hadn't known him well, but we had had some good conversations, and I think really liked what the other one was doing. And so when we started talking, it just kind of got

What’s Next

SPEAKER_04 18:20

it in my head, and I think in his head as well. I was like, Yeah, I've got this one newswriter who I think he and I would like to continue to still work together. Could there be something that we could do that you would want? Could we do a newsletter for you? Maybe I could host a podcast. And it was actually my colleague Ryan Kroll, this news newswriter. He was the one who really wanted to do a newsletter. He'd been reading a lot of new media. He wasn't as obsessed about the old forms as I was. And he was like, I think we could do just a really cool newsletter. I was like, Yeah, Matt, you guys do amazing newsletters at St. Louis Magazine. Could there be room for like a daily newsletter? So it was Ryan's idea. I brought it to Matt, and Matt was like, I want to think about this, but I think you're on to something. And he was immediately very like, how would you guys do this? Like, what would you structure it as? What would you want to cover? Really wanted to hear our ideas, and that forced us to, you know, as we're still like on this life raft, trying to figure out how would we build this? And that was really exciting.

SPEAKER_05 19:16

For over 150 years, SSM Health has been providing hope, healing, and opportunities to the St. Louis community. With over 40,000 employees across four states, they're not only delivering exceptional care, they're one of the region's largest employers, shaping the future of healthcare. We're proud to present SSM Health as the official healthcare partner of the STL bucket list show. If you've dreamed of a career where you're truly making a difference every day, SSM Health can help you take that to the next step. Learn more at their website in the link in the show notes. In this daily newsletter now, you guys have been doing it for I mean, it's been like what?

SPEAKER_04 19:48

It's been almost two years. It'll be two years this July.

SPEAKER_05 19:51

Yeah, and it comes out every single day. In five days.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

What did I get myself into?

SPEAKER_05 19:56

Yeah. I mean, I to me, like we send out one a

Starting the Newsletter

SPEAKER_05 20:00

week, and that is like bandwidth-wise is a lot for us.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Well, sure, but you have you're running this whole company.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

So but we send out one a week, and it's like you do this daily newsletter where you're telling all these stories, and I love how it reads because and I love when it comes out because I wake up early with my kids. So at 6 a.m. I wake up with my kids, I get them ready, I get them breakfast, and then I actually do read it every single day. And it's like, but I can read it very quickly and I can skim through what I want to read in it. And that's what's really cool. And I love like the little sections that how you guys collaborate with it. So walk me through that. So are you guys collaborating daily on how it's structured, or you're like, hey, like can you jump in on this? Or hey, I'm out of town, can you jump in on this? It's like you guys kind of just piece together that those sections together.

SPEAKER_04 20:39

It seems like Yeah, we to we touch base every morning at 9 a.m. And it's like, what do you got today? What do you want to do today?

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

And frankly, you know, Ryan is the news reporter. Like his job is just to go out there and find what he can find, and I build the addition around what he finds. Yes. If Ryan wants to zig, I will zag. You know, if he's like, I'm doing a story at City Hall, I'm like, great, I love that story. I'm gonna find something where I can complement it.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

So I'm technically the editor of this thing, but I also think of myself as like I'm Jose Okendo. I'm running around trying to just play whatever position needs to be played. If I need to like go like uh be the relief pitcher in the 10th inning and just throw some junk balls just to like get something across the plate, I will do that. And there are days that I am trying to swing for the fences. I would say that is happening very rarely at this stage of my career. Mostly I'm trying

Building It Daily

SPEAKER_04 21:29

to figure out who can I pass the ball to who can actually like make the play.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

And it's so beautiful because like now you can kind of curate your own thing and you can go out on your own terms at this point because you're creating this new thing and you brought this to them. So it's more of a partnership that you're bringing to St. Louis magazine. And since then I've seen like other evolutions, like you guys launched the 314 podcasts. Now you're having these conversations with all these people that then turn into more content in the newsletter. Like all of the things do connect in a way. And that's what I love about podcasting is like now we have these transcripts that can turn into like all these different things that that they're That they can do in the studio and short form media, like the short form reels, the YouTube videos and all that. That's why, like when I say the word influencers, like you have influence over what people read and what people see in St. Louis. And I'm I, you know, I don't know the readers, but like a lot of people are opening that every morning. And it's like, you know, it's a lot of influence that you have every morning. Um, so that's really cool that what what you've been able to do. So I guess I want to talk about the future of media because I am in in media in a different way,

Content Strategy

SPEAKER_05 22:24

and I'm learning this print media realm and this website realm. Like we're publishing things, we're using these softwares, we're running banner at like all the stuff that's all new to me. But like as the future of media grows, like what in your professional opinion, like what do you see these next five to 10 years? I mean, can you even think that far out, or like do you ever think about it?

SPEAKER_04 22:42

I mean, I think about it a lot. Yeah. I also think about it. I get too far ahead of myself. Like, I have a kid who's 10 years old, and she's really good at writing, and she loves to tell stories, and I'm like, I want you to go into science. You know, like you're trying to like guide me. Yeah. So I don't have much hope for my 10-year-old daughter. I have hope for you.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Like, and I feel like, you know, you're thinking about things in a really smart way. You're not coming in with the shackles of here's how we used to do things that I have, frankly, been too tied to throughout my career. So I have hope that like people your generation are gonna figure this out. I have hope that St. Louis Magazine is gonna figure this out. You know, they have not just been so supportive of what Ryan and I are trying to do news-wise, but they really think about news in a different way, how to monetize it, how to connect with readers. You know, I think they're doing it really smartly. I try to only think like about a year ahead at a time. I just don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring. I think what's happening with AI right now, as somebody who loves the written word and who loves sort of burrowing inside other writers' brains, I'm terrified by what AI is doing to a generation of readers. I think so much of it is slop.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

I think it's horrible. Um, also visually, it's horrible that somebody can just create some video that isn't real and try to like put this up there and say, this is about this new St.

Future of Media & AI

SPEAKER_04 24:04

Louis restaurant. And it's all like B-roll, as opposed to when you guys are out there like getting beautiful images of something that is true. I hate that. And I think we are gonna come to a crossroads as media consumers. Are we gonna put up with this junk? And are we gonna fall for the terrible slap that so many for-profit companies are invested in pushing online? And are we gonna fall for this idea that all we care about is what the national algorithm tells us? If that is the road we go as a civilization and as a community, then I am sunk, you are sunk, all people who are trying to do media the right way are sunk. I wanna believe we're better than that. And I I believe St. Louis in particular is better than that. And here is why. You know, when I moved here, I was working for an alt weekly that was already kind of on its heels, but I saw all around me there was the potential to turn this altweekly around because unlike, say, Los Angeles, where I ended up going, there was a robust media ecosystem here. Where else in America had two food monthlies? Right. A small Midwest Town St. That's insane. Yeah. And then we also had all these great, like the The Jewish Light does amazing work every day. There's all these uh, you know, the Webster Kirkwood Times, the common reader out of Wash U. It's just a, you know, an essay publication. They do amazing work. There's a lot of readers here. We have more bookstores per capita than just about anywhere. And so I what I'm hoping is that this bubble, this this wonderful St. Louis bubble that I've been so lucky to be accepted in, that we can find a path forward where we're gonna seek out like quality journalism, we're gonna seek out local journalism, we're gonna care about the truth, and we're almost gonna like present a model for the rest of the nation.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:43

So you and I can continue to have careers bringing people stories about local businesses, local people.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Right. I think there's a lane for it. If Loving Where You Work is on your STL bucket list, you should definitely know about Serendipity Labs in Clayton. We are more than just a coworking space. We're an upscale, hospitality-driven workplace with coworking, private offices, team rooms, and meeting and event spaces that don't feel sad. It's all wrapped up in an incredible community, real networking, fun events, legit coffee, and fruit-infused water that might ruin regular water for you forever. If you're building something in St. Louis, come work somewhere you actually want to show up. And as a listener perk, enjoy 20% off meeting in event space or one free week of coworking or a day office. Serendipity Labs, basically it's work, but better.

SPEAKER_05 26:30

That was beautifully said. I I think that, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like, and my wife and I talk about this all the time because she is that English major and her kids are using AI to write these papers now and she's catching them. And it's like the kids are coming out of high school not actually being able to physically write anything and communicate. Now, I'm not gonna be the one to say we don't use it. We use AI automations for a lot of stuff that we do. And and and there's there's needs for it. But yeah, the slop to your point, like during the Super Bowl, I think like 28% of the commercials were made with AI.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

So it's like isn't that crazy for the Super Bowl slot?

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Like this is like the best slot that you're paying zillions of dollars for. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, I'll just I'll just have AI throw something together.

SPEAKER_05 27:06

Yeah, and it and it's for the creatives that work here, like Julia who's producing this podcast, like she came through college. You know, first of all, Julia went through college during COVID, and then you did a lot of remote, and then you're you want to be a video editor, but like now AI is doing video editing and AIs can create videos, and now they can take your podcast and make you say things that you didn't actually say. Like there's things that like you don't know what's actually real on the internet, and then there now there's too much content. So I think that the thing that I that I get excited about is is audiences though. So like you have an audience that you can talk to. So I think that it's gonna be increasingly harder to create audiences because there's gonna be so much content.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:40

Um, and so many different ways to absorb it. But yeah, I mean, I I think that, yeah, to your point, it is scary, especially as a 30-year-old. It's like I have a long way to go to work. Like, what am I going to be doing when I'm 40 or 10 years? I mean, to next year, what are we gonna be doing? We don't know, you know, but like there's still something special about going out to do a video. Like today, we're gonna go out and film a video with a restaurant owner, we're gonna mic them up, we're gonna post that video. Lauren's gonna write something great about it, we're gonna publish it in a print magazine. Yeah. And then hopefully we get an advertiser on the next page that helps us cover the cost of all that stuff that we just did. Right. And that's the game that we play. Right. You know, and

AI & Content Overload

SPEAKER_05 28:14

and that's what that's what it's hard to do because we have to get the advertisers, but we also have to tell the stories and we have to sell advertising. And that's where it's hard with the the traditional journalists is like it's a game that you have to play together. It's like, hey, we need this advertiser in here, we need this person in here. Like all that just offsets all the other labor that goes into it. Yeah, it's it's a hard game to play, but it's fun. And it's like people, when we have Food Truck Friday in a couple weeks, like we have these people that come and talk tell us how much Sauce Magazine means to them. And Sauce Magazine was gonna close down too. Yeah. I didn't I didn't really tell you that full story, but yeah, like Sauce Magazine and Lauren, me and Lauren did a podcast together talking about how bad that was, and like they were down to two people, and she was putting together a whole magazine by herself, and um, they were printing at one point 2,500 copies, which like were just not like it wasn't there was nobody reading it at that point. So, you know, it's been fun to we're committed to keep doing the print. We're not gonna stop doing the print. Like, if we don't do the print, then there's really it's not sauce magazine, in my point, in my opinion. Like the actual print that we do, I I think I have one in there, but that's been uh been fun. So when we had the opportunity to acquire that, that came with a lot of baggage that we had to then clean up. Like we're eight months in now and we're still cleaning up a lot of that stuff. Now we're going into a new direction. I think we feel really good about where we're going. But yeah, it's it's uh yeah, the AI slop, I can see it right away. Like we have graphic designers upstairs, like you can clearly tell when it's made with AI versus when it's not. Now eventually that's gonna get harder to blur, though. Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

It is and uh but I do think like I I don't know if you're seeing this on your channels, but I think there is a hunger for what is real because people do see that slap. They do understand that sort of just this cobbled together, like machine-created thing. Yeah, it's not revealing truth, it's not revealing anything that interesting. It might be like fun for a short laugh. And so I think people are are seeking out. I see this return to print. Yes. And I see this return to like young people saying, okay, I don't want to be a slave to this algorithm. Yeah, or my phone. Right. And so to say

Monetizing Media

SPEAKER_04 30:11

no to the and shidification of life, the hope is that then the readers are gonna follow, the viewers are gonna follow, things like what you're doing, things like what we're trying to do. And then hopefully that advertiser understands, no, here is what I want to be next to. I don't want to just pay to have some ad on TikTok where I'm next to junk.

SPEAKER_05 30:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

You know?

SPEAKER_05 30:32

The STL bucket list show is proudly sponsored by Suede Dispensary with 11 Missouri area locations. Suede does so much for the St. Louis community. We've been working with this team for a couple years back since Medical was here, and we're excited to support their new product launches, events, and community initiatives. We couldn't be happier to work with this premier cannabis brand, and we're excited for them to sponsor the show. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. Yes, and like I was reading a thing about um snail mail. Like, snail mail is now becoming more popular. So there's these younger people that are creating written newsletters that they mail out, and you get something and you open it. Cause like, when do you go to your mailbox and actually get something you're excited to open? Yeah, like very rarely. So it's like this snail mail where you pay 10 bucks a month and this local, and then they all build their audiences from TikTok. And then they're like, hey guys, like instead of doing a digital news, everybody has a digital newsletter. It's like I do a snail mail, it's 12 bucks a month, it costs me $2 to send it out, and you get some, you get a fun handwritten letter every time. But it's not really handwritten because they print it. Well, sure. Handwrite it, then print it. But still, it's like there's ways to do stuff, and like we're trying to do it STL bucket list, create community. So it's like events are gonna be big for us. I know events are big for St. Louis Magazine, um, in-person things, like young people um want to meet people in person. It's like for St. Louis to be a city where people want to be here. It's like it needs to be like in Austin where there's gyms doing things, there's run clubs, there's coffee meetups, there's like people can date and find each other that's not on an app. Yeah. You know, it's like how because that's the thing. Like that we, you know, even me being 30, like I met my wife in person, but like a lot of people don't meet their people in person. So it's like everything is digital. So I think there's a lot of, you know, I think we're in a sweet spot with like how do we, how do we monetize it while also growing it, but also like I'm seeing that same thing because I love we started by just making videos, and that was all we did. And we didn't charge anything for it. We didn't sell any advertising and we just made videos every single day. And now it's like, okay, well, how do we make more videos for because now we need more content? And it's like now we need we have this podcast, we have the sauce podcast, we have just as many podcasts as you guys. Like we're doing podcasts every single day, and it's still not enough content. But like nobody, how can people listen to that much stuff?

SPEAKER_04 32:34

I mean, that's a that's a great question. I myself, I feel like I have no time to listen to podcasts. I don't know who the podcast people are, but yeah, they're there.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

Um, and then the podcast, like we started the podcast to create more short form videos. So it's like maybe 20,000 people will see the video, but only 800 people will listen to the actual show. So it's like, how are we? And then, like you said earlier, it's like I'm

New Media Trends

SPEAKER_05 32:56

listening for that one portion of it. So, like, how do we chapter tize these videos out? Um, because like these like Joe Rogan's of the world that do three hour podcasts, it's like I have two kids, full-time job, 14 employees. I can't listen to three hours of a show. Yeah, you know, but there's some of them are interesting, and some of the things that people do are interesting, but it's like, so that's like where I find myself on social media more, and I find myself disconnecting. Like I set timers on social media, and like I'm trying to find a way to like really connect. And like our whole goal and mission is like that younger generation of St. Louis, like, what are they reading? What are they following? Because they are taking like they're unfollowing things that are bad for their brain. Like, young people actually are pretty impressive.

SPEAKER_04 33:32

I give them more credit than the older generation, which I feel like we've gotten a great response from both for the newsletter. So I don't want to like you know, paint with a broad brush here. But when I look at how uh my parents and some people their age consume media, I'm like, what are you reading? You've never heard of this site. The algorithm has fed it up to you. Yeah. And it's all lies, and you're falling for this. And I feel like younger people are savvier news consumers. And you know, you mentioned the desire to get out in person. I'm seeing things like they're doing daytime raves where there's no alcohol involved, and like kids are out there dancing on like Sunday mornings, and I'm like, I have hope for the world again. Like that is great.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

I couldn't do that without alcohol, but I'm glad there's a generation that can.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

No, that's cool. Yeah, the coffee meeting. Yeah, people don't drink as much anymore. And it's it's just different. Yeah, it's it's so funny. So I want to do a couple rapid fire things. This is the STL bucket list show. So favorite STL neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Oh boy. Uh boy, I'm so torn here. Because I currently live in Compton Heights and I love it.

SPEAKER_05 34:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

But I think I still have to say Lafayette Square because I like something that's super walkable. You know, you could just go down the street, there's your favorite wine bar.

SPEAKER_05 34:44

Yeah. No, that's great. Lafayette's great. Um, most overrated STL opinion.

SPEAKER_04 34:50

Oh, geez. I'm gonna say I I think there's this opinion that St. Louis is closed to outsiders, and there's this idea that like this high school question is like this

Rapid Fire

SPEAKER_04 35:02

gatekeeping. I think that's bullshit. I think I have never lived in a place that has been more welcoming and I've bounced around a lot. I think St. Louisans really want to connect. They want to introduce you to their city.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

And I think they do a great job of it. And I think we should take pride in that and stop hiding behind jokes about, oh, well, I'm gonna ask you the high school question.

SPEAKER_05 35:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:23

No, I get that. Uh this one's pretty easy. Print or digital.

SPEAKER_04 35:27

Oh no, that's not easy at all. I'm gonna say digital.

SPEAKER_05 35:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:30

That's where, you know, that's where I'm spending my time. Yeah, no, I this newsletter, this is what I'm spending my whole day on.

SPEAKER_05 35:38

Yeah. So that's in I'm all in. Yeah, I know you are. Um so and then I want to talk about some STL bucket list places. So, like when uh so you're a transplant here. So, like when people come in to see you, does your family live in St. Louis? They don't. Okay. Um, so when your family comes in town, like what are like let's walk through a day in your life. So, like you have young kids too. So there's kind of two ways. Like, what are your kids like? And then what does like date nights look like? So let's just start with like, you know, mornings, like where are there some of those coffee spots that you enjoy? Um, and then we'll kind of go all the way through a day.

SPEAKER_04 36:09

Yeah, so I don't actually drink coffee. I know.

SPEAKER_05 36:11

I could get you write and do podcasts and don't drink coffee.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

I drink Diet Coke.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

So I know.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

I know.

SPEAKER_05 36:17

So does she. Ah, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Yes. So yeah, I'm not a coffee shop person at all. Um, I do like a sizable uh breakfast sandwich. I think uh damn fine hand pies, I would start the day having breakfast there. Um I love to walk, and but I like a walk where there's a lot going on. So when I have out-of-towners, I love taking them to the zoo.

SPEAKER_05 36:40

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Um, I have my whole like, here's the exact route I have to do every time I go to the zoo. My kids are obsessed with it. Um, I also love taking people to Art Hill. I think I have a lot of West Coasters that I bring here since I used to live there. And they are just stunned. Like there is nothing like Art Hill anywhere in Los Angeles, in Phoenix. It's just, it's the most beautiful thing. And to just have a picnic there, yes, it's just this extraordinary experience.

SPEAKER_05 37:06

The bucket list thing is like just hanging out in Forest Park and like you don't have to spend any money.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:11

You can just walk through the zoo and then go over to Art Hill and bring your own pack your own picnic from like a local grocery like AON Co. And like we'll bring all these nice things. And I got engaged on Art Hill. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

So you you got good taste.

SPEAKER_05 37:21

Yeah, I love that spot. On the basin on the other side, but still like Art Hill is in the backdrop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

And then the other thing I like to do, um, again, this is something that a lot of cities don't have, is just these cool neighborhoods to walk around. So I like to take people to the Central

STL Bucket List Guide

SPEAKER_04 37:34

West End or Lafayette Square or Soulard and just stroll. You know, and maybe we'll go into a coffee shop even if there's nothing there for me to drink. But like, you know, just get a little snack or go stop into a bar, have a glass of wine, and just experience the architecture. Like this town has the most amazing houses, and I could just stare at them all day long.

SPEAKER_05 37:52

Yeah, and you live in in Compton Heights, you have some beautiful homes. Like coming from like Arizona, like, yeah, it's just like at the end of the day, like, yes, those towns are beautiful, but like they don't, you don't feel the culture and the energy that you feel going down South Grand and like seeing all these different ethnic ethnic restaurants, like building these, and that's what inspires me about St. Louis is like each of these neighborhoods have their own identity, but they also have local entrepreneurs that sometimes are immigrants that have traveled here and sometimes are like fourth, five, fifth generation.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

You know, we live in an old city, so it's really cool. And you probably saw that when you moved here, and it's changed in a way so much since you've moved here.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Yeah. Yeah. And I love how like packets of the city that were once moribund, like have completely rebounded to the point that, like, you know, people like me are priced out of them. There's a reason I left Lafayette Square. I can't afford it. And you tell old timers that, and they're like, what? Is that place even safe? It's like, dude, like the entry point is like a million bucks at this point. And and I love that these neighborhoods have come back. And, you know, we're all lucky just to visit them.

SPEAKER_05 38:50

This episode is sponsored by Upshot Coffee, three St. Louis area locations in Cottleville, Break Shop in St. Charles, and their new Hi-Fi location in Clayton. I personally use Upshot Coffee every day at my espresso machine at home, and I try to visit one of the shops at least once a week. They source the beans responsibly from local farms all across the world. Um, and they take care of their staff and they take care of the community. Let's get back to the show. What about uh if you celebrate? Like, I don't know how often you celebrate. Oh, constantly. Okay, you do celebrate things a lot. So, like, well, what is something you'd celebrate?

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Like it just a life thing or maybe a work thing or just Oh, like, you know, I love other people's birthdays, or like, you know, just like you got a promotion. Let's go have drinks. Anniversary.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

So what's like a date night spot for you when you have a babysitter?

SPEAKER_04 39:32

Yeah. So my husband and I love to sit at the bar at Indo. We'll just go there and like, you know, just kind of crash it, or we go to the bar at Little Fox and just to sit there and have like the best food in the world in like this casual way. To me, that feels like the best of both worlds.

SPEAKER_05 39:46

That's awesome. And then my last question is Is there a headline out of St. Louis that you wish that you wrote?

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Oh man, every day. Every day, you see stuff all the time, and you're like, dang, I wish I had that. You know, the problem with having like a two-person team and trying to cover all the news is every day there's a story I wish I had, and I'm so jealous of like all these talented reporters. And sometimes it'll be like my own team, you know, like Ryan will have a story. I'll be like, oh man, this is such a good story. And it's like, there's this tiny part of me that's jealous, and the other part of me is just so proud that like we have this place where Ryan can keep being the reporter that he is.

SPEAKER_05 40:20

Yeah, no, that's so funny. Um, and then I guess is there somebody that you want to have on your podcast that you haven't yet out of St. Louis?

SPEAKER_04 40:25

Oh, I'm not gonna tell you that because then you'll go and then I'll get him. I will say uh we're gonna do a live podcast of the 314 podcast where we're gonna go to the Sheldon. I'm gonna interview someone live on stage. And the person I asked to do this did say yes. We're gonna announce it very soon at so excited to talk to this person this week.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

When is this happening? Or in May?

SPEAKER_04 40:45

It'll be in June.

SPEAKER_05 40:46

In June. Yeah. And you'll sell tickets to the event. Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

So yeah, people look at uh SDLbag.com, there'll be ticket info, we'll be coming probably in like the next two or three weeks.

SPEAKER_05 40:55

And this will be a good gift. I never thought about we've never done a live podcast and like Neil Salsic, who's from the Mighty Pines. Oh, yeah, he wants to do like a live

Date Night Spots

SPEAKER_05 41:03

podcast with like band people and like it's so logistically, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_04 41:06

It it's gonna be a lot of work. We're probably gonna do like one a year, but I think it's gonna be super fun. I like like a live, I want to hear people laughing or to tell when people are getting bored because I've been talking too much. Like that's that's nice.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

And you did really good at the live that I watched you at the Explore St. Louis when you moderated that. And like, so now people get to ask you to do these things and moderate. So that's where when I use the word influence, it's like you are influences of these rooms. Like, people come to you and like you're the one I want talking at this moment, you know? And it's like we're losing a lot of good journalists to move to other

Stories & Guests

SPEAKER_05 41:36

cities too.

SPEAKER_04 41:37

Yeah, I mean, I think honestly, that's just I'm like one of the few people who has this much experience who's left. So it's like, what journalists are still working in St. Louis? Well, good, there's Sarah Fensky. I guess we could ask her like that. That's my influence.

SPEAKER_05 41:49

That's great. I mean, hey, you're here. I'll take it. You're available.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

No, totally. I'm I'm proud to still be here. Like of everything in my career, I think I'm most proud to still be full-time employed.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

Yeah. Um, well, cool. I'm glad that we made this connection and I'm super excited and would love to pick your brain on what we're doing with sauce eventually. And, you know, any advice that you could give to a younger entrepreneur that's like trying to bring this thing back to life. It's been a lot harder than I expected. So um, eight months in, but we'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

Yeah. And I probably should get some advice from you on like how do we keep this thing going? I mean, we're all in this together, right? Like we're in the same business. We're trying to cultivate St. Louis. Yeah. People who care about St. Louis. So we're not competitors. Like we're, you know, we're we're in this together.

SPEAKER_05 42:30

I agree. No, absolutely. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on. And this was another episode of the SDL Bucketless Show. St. Louis, thanks for listening. Everything we do here is about telling the story of this city, and that doesn't stop with this show. On the Bucketless Podcast Network, we're diving even deeper into the people, places, and moments that make this city what it is. Meet Me in Music with Neil Salcett captures the sound of the city, past and present, ending each episode with a live performance. For my Foodie Lovers, the sauce with Lauren Healy brings you inside the restaurants that define our culture every Tuesday. Gateway to Growth with Jamal Cornelius highlights the stories behind the people that make St. Louis work. And every Thursday, Bryce breaks down your weekend with This Week in St. Louis. More stories, more voices.

Media Influence

SPEAKER_05 43:10

Explore the full bucketless podcast network wherever you listen.