Cold Open: Stockpiling Meat During Covid

SPEAKER_02 0:00

People were buying in bulk, you know. They were, you know, you couldn't get a deep freeze at that time, remember, because everybody was like buying deep freezers and like stocking up on meat.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

The STL

Royal Banks of Missouri Sponsor Read

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Show Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:47

If you wanna hear about St. Louis, tune into the Bucket List Show Weekly. Hear what Marissa and Luke say. It drops every Wednesday. Got a dope new guest every single week. Buckle up for the ride. Who's it gonna be? Who's on the show today? They rap St. Louis. What to do in the loo on a late night? I maybe what to do on a date night. Yeah. Bucket list as you covered, they know what's going on. What's going on? They'll give you eight. 18 different things to do on 19. If you need one more to choose, yeah. This city, city, city is a place we call home. A place we call home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

St. Louis,

Meet Chris Bolyard

SPEAKER_01 1:26

welcome back to another episode of the STL bucket list show, highlighting the people, places, and events that make St. Louis special. We have one of those people in the studio today, literally two or three blocks down the street from our studio. Um, we have Chris Polliard. Thanks for coming in the studio today, man. Yeah, thanks for having me. So I've been a huge fan. I moved to, so I told you right before the the call or right before the uh podcast that I grew up in St. Charles. And then when I moved to South City, I discovered your guys' butcher shop. And the one thing that made me fall in love with it was when I there was these beef ribs, and then I grabbed these beef ribs and they were like, oh, how do you want them cut? And I was like, I don't know. And they're like, these Korean style ones are great. So then they then sliced them like Korean, and then I took them home and just like, you know, I was like, because like a beef rib you put in a in a you know in a cast iron, like cook it for an hour. But like I had these like Korean beef ribs, and then I bought tallow. You were the first place I ever bought tallow from. This probably was six years ago.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

And now you they throw tallow at schnooks and dearbirds and these like little weird jars. But like I want to first, like before we get started, kind of learn a little bit more about your background. So you kind of grew up in a life of hospitality. So kind of walk me through like your early days in hospitality. And and are you from St. Louis too?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Yeah,

Early Life & Fine Dining

SPEAKER_02 2:36

I grew up in St. Charles and um I've been working in kitchens since I was like before I was old enough to really legally work. You know, I was like bossing tables at a mom and pop burger joint, you know, when I was like 14. And um just worked in kitchens all through high school. And um right out of high school, I went to the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York. And um I was there from '98 to 2000, you know, right out of right out of culinary school. Um I came back to St. Louis and I started working for Bill Cardwell. And in um, so he had he's had a a few restaurants over the years, but I worked for his restaurant in Frontenac, Plaza Frontenac, Cardwell's at the plaza, is what it was called. And um, that's kind of where my culinary career started in St. Louis. So I was there for about oh three and a half years, and then during my time there, um, I met Kevin Nashin, and um he was in the process of buying Sydney Street Cafe. And he acquired Sydney Street Cafe, I want to say in late 2003, and then I started working for him in like the spring of 2004. And I was with Kevin for 10 and a half years, and that's really where I did a lot of professional growing, you know, personal growing. Um, I just learned a lot. I mean, Kevin, and I've said this a million times, but I mean Kevin's always been one of my biggest mentors and still is, you know, I I still we're we're still great friends. Um, you know, we we stay in contact and you know, uh we talk on a semi-regular basis. Um so during my time there, um, I met my wife and a lot of things were happening. Um, you know, we were trying to change the menu from what it was when he bought it to something else and uh just evolve it and and transform it into something, you know, special, which it always has been. It's always been a special place, but um, there was a lot of change and evolution and slow progress over the over the years when I was there, you know, and eventually it paid off. I mean, um, he ended up winning a James Beard award um, you know, a couple years after I left. And then um, so, you know, part of these part of these evolutions and changes when I was at Sydney Street was we were starting to buy whole animals and um utilizing them, you know. I mean, I I learned how to make sausage there properly. Um, I learned how to break down um whole animals, specifically like lamb, goat, and and pork. Uh, we didn't we didn't delve into any beef just because it's there's so much more of it. There's it's a space issue and utilization issue. So, you know, the safer bets were like the smaller animals and whole fish. You know, we did a lot of uh whole fish butchering. Um so like I really fell in love with that side of things. I mean, I've always loved cooking, I always will. I still get a lot of gratification from cooking for people and creating, you know, especially cooking for my family. Um it's just always been special to me and very rewarding. But the the aspect of food when it comes to utilizing an entire animal has always been a lot of fun for me. It's been um it's it's always been something where it's a constant educational process. Um, you can always get better, you can always refine things. There's there's always new ways to approach it, you know. I mean, yeah, there's so many different ways to do the same thing in certain situations that uh that's what makes it fun and and like fresh for me.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And I bet it was cool from like simply working in the kitchen instead of getting like a delivery from a truck, like you got like a farmer that drove in and dropped something off to you, and then you got to see, like, oh, like you're you know, an hour away and you just drove up and delivered this amazing cow or pig or whatever you guys got in, and like yeah, being able to like take that, but then also, you know, it looks crazy when you're when I go to your shop and you see it and you're like, okay, how does this even start? Like, where do you even start? And I'm sure that that was like really, you know, intimidating at first. And then once you started to get it, then you're you're also it's a sustainable practice because you're not wasting anything either. You're grabbing other parts of the cow or the fish or anything like that to create other dishes and different things like that. So, how soon was it? So, like you were in the kitchen of a fine dining restaurant for I mean, most of the 13 years of your career was all in fine dining. And then was what was that pivotal moment of like going out on your own? What year was that again when you first wasn't that the smaller shop? Was that yeah, the one across the street?

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Um

Opening Bolyard's

SPEAKER_02 7:19

1600 square foot space in 2014, like June of 2014, I left Sydney Street and I helped him open Peacemaker. And when I say that, I mean I was I was working the line on it at Peacemaker for like the first four months it was open, um, which was a crazy experience. Yeah. Um but it was a cool, it was a cool experience too, because he, you know, it was it was a rock star crew of of people that were, you know, like the opening line cooks slash, you know, Sioux chefs at Peacemaker. And then from there I left and I had basically all of October of unemployment, but I utilized that time to tie up loose ends, you know, for the new shop. Because I it had taken, it was an ex, you know, it was a process to get all your ducks in a row and and get everything lined up to open a business. I mean, you talk to anybody about that. It's it's a very stressful, challenging, you know, it really tests your patience because you have a timeline of thing of of things and how you want them to go. And it's like, you know, you're waiting on one guy to do his job before the next guy can do his job. So you may have like a goal in mind, hey, we're gonna open up, you know, whatever, June, you know, June of this date, and it almost never happens. So, you know, I had all of October to really try to speed things up and get get all our stuff together, and we ended up opening on Black Friday in uh 2014. So, like, you know, the day after Thanksgiving, 2014 is when we opened up in our original location.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah. What was that first day like? I mean, being in your own shop, like as a small business owner myself, I mean, there's certain things about having people in your space, but like you were used to hospitality because you were in the kitchen, I think working the line. But like once you were working the counter, like tell me about that first. Was it extremely busy or no? It was.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

I ended up cutting myself really bad. That was interesting. Um, so you know, it was it was like excitement, it was nerves, it was all that stuff. Um, but yeah, I mean, in regards to the shift from the back to the front, was a was a huge learning experience and and like uh growth period for me. So, you know, my wife, I met my wife about halfway through my time at Sydney Street, and she's got a really strong hospitality background as well. I mean, when I met her, she was managing a country club out in St. Charles. Um, she helped uh open up farmhouse. She she's worked, uh, she worked for Gerard Kraft at the original niche for many years and did all kinds of things within uh that that restaurant. Um, so she, you know, she she has a very strong hospitality um set of skills. And so she brought that to the table, right? I mean, there were many times where, you know, I'm I'm just kind of in my own world, working at my pace, have my head down, and I probably have this look on my face of like not that's not very approachable, right? And uh, you know, I was reminded constantly, like, you need to, yeah, smile, like pretend that you're not hating hating it. Yeah. I mean, it's it's uh so there was there was that, you know, there's this this this shift of like you're on display now, you know, you're you have to change your mindset and your your demeanor and everything about you from you know from being in the back to now it's kind of a a mix of the two, you know, you're you're you're fusing the two. And so that and that was, you know, that was a big change. And and thank and thankfully she she brought that to the table and she was able to instill that in me and everybody else, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

For

SSM Health Sponsor Read

SPEAKER_01 10:52

over 150 years, SSM Health has been providing hope, healing, and opportunities to the St. Louis community. With over 40,000 employees across four states, they're not only delivering exceptional care, they're one of the region's largest employers, shaping the future of healthcare. We're proud to present SSM Health as the official healthcare partner of the STL bucket list show. If you've dreamed of a career where you're truly making a difference every day, SSM Health can help you take that to the next step. Learn more at their website in the link in the show notes. Working with your wife. So I started this business with my wife in 2019. We don't work as close. We have little babies now, so it's a little bit challenging. I'm sure you went through that too. But like, what is the give for the people that work with their partners is like obviously it's the but the best thing in the world when you when you are rolling and you have it right. But then as we grew our business and started having kids, then she got pulled in different directions and I got pulled in different directions. Like you guys have four kids. Yeah. So how do you balance that? And did you have any kids when you started the business? We had one. You had one. Okay. So it kind of walked me through like working with your partner and like obviously it's special, but then also those other things that they can have because it's your life every day, everywhere, it's home, kids, all that, you know, stuff like that. Kids grew up in the

Family & the Shop

SPEAKER_01 12:03

shop.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

So yeah, yeah, it uh I mean to say the least, it's it's been it's it's had its challenges and it's also had you know lots of rewards. So when we opened the shop, our oldest daughter was a year old, and you know, we had two employees. So it was me, Abby, two other people, and uh our oldest daughter, Betty, and Betty was a year old. And so Betty and Abby spent you know every waking moment at the shop with me. Yeah. Then there was times where you know Betty would be strapped to Abby's back asleep while she was walking around, you know, doing stuff. She'd set up the case in the morning. Um, and we had like a literally like a play area behind the the counter, and Betty would sleep underneath the counter sometimes. I mean, so she grew up there literally. And um, but it was always the plan from you know, from the get-go that eventually Abby's role was gonna um you know kind of slowly kind of um fade out of the shop and transition to more of a homeschool situation. And that's you know, that's what it looks like today. So, you know, as our family grew, she she was needed more and more at home. And she now homeschools our kids and runs the household. I mean, that that in itself is like one and a half full-time jobs. I mean, it's a more it's a job that I I don't think that I can handle. I don't have the patience for it, but you know, bless her heart, she she does. And um, so you know that that was that was a slow and I would say challenging transition because you know, I relied on her for a lot of things over the years, and then slowly but surely I would, you know, just take more off her plate all the while I'm trying to to grow as a you know a business person and and delegate and hand things off. Because I've always been the type of person that I have a very strong work ethic. Um I'm gonna try and do as much as I can myself um and and just I always focus on like the technical things and and that side of it. And so it was it was difficult. Yeah, very difficult. Yeah, letting letting go of things and um letting people make mistakes and uh just handing things off because you know you can you can never do it all yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

And you you know, if you you want to grow and have some sort of quality of life, you have to you have to let go of those things and yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges for me was that like when we were working together a lot in 2019 to 2022 is like the the when we got home, there was nothing else to talk about because like everything was around work, and I think that you guys have probably done a really good job of like, you know, like you mentioned, like the house, like the homeschool, that's its own thing. So you get to come home and be like, oh, like what'd you guys learn today? It's like a still, even though you guys work together and she's involved in all this stuff. I mean, we talk to her all the time and she's in our group chat, we're all talking about work, setting up DoorDash, like all these different things that literally come up at all times. Um, but I mean, I think that the best thing is you're building a local business. Your kids know they see you go to work every day, they see what you're doing, and they see their mom doing this. And I think that that's when I think of local business and I think of small businesses. That's what I think of. You know, I grew up going with my dad to work when he was in construction and I would sit in the truck, had no idea what was going on. But nowadays everybody works on computers and virtually, and it doesn't even seem real what people are even doing anymore. So it's like to be able to have like a you know a job like yours, I mean, it's so unique. So I kind of want to walk through like the reception of customers. So when you opened up, obviously there was an education thing that people had to deal with. You know, it was the first time I went there, I was like, you just and your staff's so good at like I obviously coaching people on hey, this is this, this is this. But like when people walk in there, it's like that education is big. Did it take a little bit for you to start seeing like the community get around it? I mean, in that in 2014, people weren't really aware of where food came from. They didn't really care as much about I don't, I don't know if they cared much about I I know I didn't in 2014.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

So

Teaching Whole-Animal Butchery

SPEAKER_02 15:55

well, there was a little bit of that, and that's you know, that was part of the impetus to like open the shop because we knew that people were becoming more and more concerned and aware of where their food was coming from. And we felt like there was a need for something like Bollyards. But it but yeah, I mean, if you if you re you know, if you fast forward from 2014 to now, yeah, things are a lot different. I mean, people are much more aware and like, you know, their their their budgets have changed, you know, or the priorities, I should say, like their priorities have changed in terms of like what they're spending money on and how they look at food and how they source food. But yeah, when we opened in 2014, it was uh it was it was a huge education um because people weren't used to coming into a sh a place like ours and shopping for meat, you know. Either they had an experience at some of the other local shops that have been around for years, um, and or they had experience with, you know, a grocery store setting, which are kind of similar, you know. I mean, there there isn't there isn't a whole heck of a lot of like conversation or dialect between, you know, the customer and the butcher on like what they're what they're looking at or comparable substitutes or or even how to shop at a whole animal butcher shop, you know. So, you know, that that presented some challenges, but that was kind of part of the fun, too, is exposing people to new cuts and just you know, you see like the light bulb go off when you um are talking about various cuts and how to use them or or what where they're at on the animal and you know why they're better for a certain cooking application versus the other. Or like if if they come in and they ask for something and we're out of it, then we can offer a comparable substitute, you know. And um it helps to have a cooking background, you know. You can you can offer advice on that. And that's and a lot of people were in the beginning were looking for that, you know. They they had no idea what these other cuts were that were that they've never seen before or, you know, never had experience with.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I think the first time I had a Denver steak was at your place. I mean, the first time I had a few different of these like traditional cuts that like you normally you have a ribeye, a strip steak, and a filet. That's what you see at a at a big box store, and then you get this little Denver steak. But then the guy there was like, oh, like I like cook it this way. He told me how to cut it when I after you cook it, he's like cut it a certain way so that you know there's certain ways to cut it and like all these different things that you guys do. And and uh it's been really cool to see like pork, obviously, that you guys offer and like the local farms that you guys work with. I mean, shout out a few of the local farms that that you guys, I mean, you guys have some pretty good relationships with some of these farms and help put them on the map. Yeah, with I I see their names on menus now, which I never saw that back in the day when I went to restaurants. So I think you guys had a big part in that.

The Farms Behind Bolyard's

SPEAKER_02 18:32

So we uh so with beef, we work with two farms now. Um we we work with Price Family Farms, they're in Troy, Missouri, and we've worked with them almost since we've opened. I mean, I I think we brought them on maybe a year or two after we opened. We had two different farms, you know, originally. But um, you know, David and and um you know and his his crew do an amazing job. I mean, he's I mean he's a one-man show on on his on his farm, but he's got some partners that have other properties and they're they're raising exactly how he is. So, you know, he was able to kind of grow a little bit by bringing on some other guys and helping him with uh with the workload. But I mean, um, yeah, so Price Family Farms does an amazing job. Um and then we work with Marie's River Wagyu, they're in Westphalia, uh very similar operation, uh, just a different breed of of animal, obviously. So there's a there's there's some subtle differences. Um, you know, they're their their feed is a little bit different, but genetics play a big role in that. I mean, like just the the size of the animals are different, you know, the you know, the the flavor can be it the flavor is pretty comparable to what to what David Stewart doing, but um great operation. Um we we started working with them last year. Um and then we've I've been working probably the farm that I've been working the longest with is Newman Farms in Myrtle, Missouri. I mean, I've been buying pigs from him since I was at Sydney Street like for forever ago. And uh amazing family. You know, we've we've I mean we've been to all the farms, but we've been out to David's farms, uh David's farm um David Newman um many times. Um beautiful, beautiful area. I mean it's it's roll, it's like rolling hills surrounded by woods, you know, it's really cool. Like the there's all these sparrowing huts all over the property, and so that's where you know the female pigs have their piglets and um they're free to roam around, and it's a really neat, it's a really neat place. Um and then we also work with another hog farm called Sullivan Farms, and they are in Fayette, Missouri. And um they so so David Newman's pigs are all Berkshire. Um very consistent, it's a heritage breed. Um we we like using I think we've stuck with David for as long as we have because of the consistency, you know. It's uh it it in terms of you know, if you're trying to be consistent with cuts that you're putting in a case, um that's you know, David provides that most of the time. I mean, there is some variance throughout the year with with weather plays a role in things like that, yeah. Um but then so with Sullivan Farms, they do a cross, so they do um waddle, large black, and I think Yorkshire, I think is the is the mix. Um and it's it's great, it's great pork. Um very very similar to David's, but a little different. Um they I think what makes them stand out is is they feed their hogs um organic milk. Uh and the pigs go crazy over it. It's fun. We were out there on a farm tour and uh they were just like, well, check this out. And they like opened up all the all the milk for dumping in these troughs, and the pigs were like falling over themselves, like trying to get to it. Loving it, you know. Um you take the team out there and stuff to some yeah, we we try to do that every couple years uh and take them out to to the farms to see. Yeah, to see. I I think it's important for them to see that. It was important for me to see that. I mean, we did that um before we opened Balyards, you know, when we were trying to figure out Where we're gonna source these animals from. Um just to make sure that you know they're they're they fall in line with like our standards and our ethos and they're they're practicing what we believe in. Like transparency's always been very important to us. And um you know, we want to provide um something special for for our customers. So you can't do that unless you be transparent and you know what's going on behind the scenes, you know.

Dispensary Sponsor Read

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, with all your partners. Yeah, and they're all similar family businesses that generally. I mean, a lot of those are generational farms. Oh, for sure. So really special. Uh huh.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yeah, Newman Farm is like that for sure. I mean, I was buying pigs from Newman when his dad was running the farm. Yeah. Um, you know, that was in like the 2010s.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yeah, that I grew up out in St. Charles, but then also in Wentzville is where I went. So like I just knew people in Forestile and like all these farms that, you know, as a child that people would have. And then out in Troy obviously was an area, but it's really cool to see those farms get recognized. And now I'm I'm thinking that, you know, and you talk to them all the time. I mean, their businesses have completely changed in this new world of, you know, working with people like you. The STL Bucket list show is proudly sponsored by Suede Dispensary with 11 Missouri area locations. Suede does so much for the St. Louis community. We've been working with this team for a couple of years back since Medical was here, and we're excited to support their new product launches, events, and community initiatives. We couldn't be happier to work with this premier cannabis brand, and we're excited for them to sponsor the show. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. I know you love cooking. So obviously, you took a while of not cooking and you were kind of just butchering and working in retail. So when was that moment where you decided that you grew out of the current space and then you decided to move across the street and then build this lunch menu?

unknown 23:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Brunch

Opening the Restaurant

SPEAKER_01 23:46

and like and stuff like that. I mean, that was a whole new business. So there's you have the butcher shop, the retail shop, and now you have this restaurant that you're doing too. So, like, was that a need or was that something that you creatively were missing? You're like, man, I really miss like seeing people sit and eat because you would never get to see anybody after they left with the meat. You're like, oh, bye. You know, they had to cook it on their own, and now you were able to host these events and different things. So um, what was that bet like when you moved across the street? And like, what was it like to open up a whole nother wing of the business with the restaurant?

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of both uh necessity and like a you know a desire to cook. I mean, it was talked about long before it happened that it would be cool to have a restaurant that was tied in with the butcher shop because obviously, you know, I I love to cook, and um, it's also an opportunity to maximize everything on the on the whole animal. You know, there's there's less waste involved. Um and so um the pandemic fortunately was was pretty good for us. You know, I I know it was terrible for a lot of people, and a lot of people lost their businesses, and there was just a lot of change. It was uh it was just a crazy time. But the reason we did well is because um restaurants were closed down, people were not dining out, um, people were cooking at home more. Um there were outbreaks in the the large-scale processing facilities that supplied to like the commodity chain, right? So like the massive, massive line of meat that you know that moves through the country that provides for for the you know everyone for us, for everybody, uh that it like stopped briefly. And that just and we're still feeling the effects of that. I mean, that just caused like a cascade of events to where we are now. So there was meat shortage, right? Like people were like, you know, they couldn't find meat at the places they always go to. And so people were people were buying in bulk, you know, they were, you know, you couldn't get a deep freeze at that time, remember, because everybody was like buying deep freezers and like stocking up on meat. And so people were looking elsewhere to buy meat, and that's how they, you know, that's how a lot of people found us during that time because they couldn't they couldn't get it from their local grocery store. Um, and we had to, you know, we had to run with a very minimal staff. We closed down for a couple of weeks and just didn't do anything for a couple of weeks. And, you know, as we started, we opened back up slowly and brought on, you know, on a staff member here, a staff member there. Um, it things were really good. Um, we were we had to really pivot and be resourceful and operate much differently than we did before because of what was going on. But in that process, we learned a few things and and and made some changes that we just decided to keep, you know. I mean, it was it was an interesting time, but I mean, ultimately it was positive for us. And so, you know, before that all happened, we were talking about expanding within the space we were in. We were talking about like building out the basement and what that would look like. Um, because we have more retail or just more. Yeah, like well, like production in the basement and then you know, the the top level all retail. So, you know, we would expand that portion of it. And um so um that that obviously never panned out, but this we we saw, you know, probably four different businesses across the street from us in this space that we're in now, like come and go over the years. I mean, if you look back, I mean there was probably seven different businesses. I mean, but I mean, we saw at least three or four, and um this opportunity just kind of came to us and we decided, you know, this is this is the time to do it if we're gonna do this. Like, can we make this work? It's scary, you know, it's a very scary decision because it's like you're taking on a lot more than you. Basically, yeah, triple everything, basically. Yeah, I mean, you know, you're talking about rent, uh, labor, utilities, everything. Everything. Yeah, it's it's a it's a huge, it's a huge risk. And so, you know, we kind of figured out what we had to do, you know, numbers-wise to make it work. And so we ended up moving in in May of 21. And yeah, it was it was kind of like starting over for us. It was uh it was very challenging to figure out how to run it.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Build a new team.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, just everything. I mean, how you know how much staff we need to run it? I mean, it was there's a lot of uh trial and error, and it's a big learning curve, you know. Um but I'm I couldn't be more proud of it. It's it's uh you know, it's it's super cool. And and what really brings me the most joy is just like the support from the community. I mean, you know, Maplewood and just St. Louis in general has been so supportive to us and you know, been behind us from day one. And um, it's just it's just really cool to have been part of this whole scene, you know, for and you're the inspiration of around a lot of these other specialty stores that are coming up, and then also, you know, you've been not recognized just in St.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Louis, but also nationally for the stuff that you guys are doing. And it's cool for the Midwest and specifically like a small town of 10,000 people in Maplewood. I know we're still all St. Louis, but like this small town of Maplewood that we're in as well, of like having this staple here that people can go to at any time. And what I really love is that you get to open up the space to the community. I love that you can see into it. I mean, the whole design and the build of the space that you have is like it almost seems like it was just meant to be a butcher shop, but obviously when you got it, I bet you have pictures. I haven't seen the pictures, it probably looked a lot.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

So

Upshot Coffee Sponsor Read

SPEAKER_02 29:20

much different.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

It's so long though. Like I when I was over there the one day, like I was just coming out of the back with like some soup and you guys do these special soups, and like everybody loves your French fries, like your brunch is pretty popular as well. The butcher classes that you're doing, like you basically expanded all this programming, but with that comes all these different levers of the business and all these different things that you're doing. But um, I love that you said you're proud of the space, and I think that you know, you're you should be as a local business owner, like being able to create space in the community and also a lot of people that have came through your shop to go on to work at other restaurants and the skills that you're able to teach. And you're a now you're a mentor, like Kevin was to you. And it's like all these different things that that you can do for people. The STL Bucket list show is fueled by Upshot Coffee. My friends at Upshot Coffee have some of the best beans in town. I got some of their new packaging here. Look at this bag. Look how big this is. Um, they have four St. Louis locations, their flagship in Coddleville, the break shop over by Lindenwood in St. Charles, their Clayton location called Hi-Fi, um, and then Flyby over in Tower Grove, their newest location. Um, and they also sell their coffee online everywhere. If you guys haven't added Upshot Coffee to your STL bucket list, it's time to try it. Some of the my favorite people in the industry and some of the best coffee in the game. I want to do a couple really about like the animals themselves. So I think I read something that you said that animals are giving life to feed us, so it deserves the best possible life first. So, like, what does that actually mean to you? Because I feel like a lot of people overlook that when they're they're having a meal.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Um,

Animal Welfare & Whole-Animal Eating

SPEAKER_02 30:51

well, I mean, the animals should be free to live as what they are, you know. A pig should live like a pig and a and a and a cow should live like a cow. So, you know, all all of the farms that we work with, the animals are spend their entire lives on pasture, you know. Um they're never they're never taken off and put in a feedlot. Um and like the beef, for example, um, you know, beef wasn't beef wasn't designed to eat just grain, right? And so that's kind of what you're what you're getting into with a feedlots scenario. I mean, these beef are are essentially weaned off their mothers and then just put straight into a feedlot, um, just given all kinds of grain. That's all they're that's all they have. And but that makes them sick, right? They weren't designed to eat grain the the way their stomachs are set up. They have a four-compartment stomach, they're ruminant animals, so they're designed to eat grass. Um and so by eating all that grain, it makes them sick. So then they're given, you know, antibiotics. They're also given growth hormones to like speed up the process. So you're you're you're consuming all that stuff, all the all that stuff that they're given, you're you're in turn eating that.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

And that cow is going through this like life of sickness.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Yeah, and yeah. Yeah, and it's just it's it's uh just not nothing good about it. No, there's not. So with you know, with with the with the beef and the pork that that we get, these they're they're never confined like that. Um you know, um beef is the beef that that we get from from our farms, it is given some grain, but it's given enough that it helps with the the end the end product. Um I mean, because I've had I've had lots of beef. I've had beef where it's just a 100% grass fed, and I've had, you know, beef where it was um it was mostly fed grain. And then, you know, there's somewhere, somewhere in between where we're where we where we are, where you know, 95% of these animals' diets is is still out on pasture, the beef specifically. It's it's it's you know, the the beef has like 70 different forages out in the field to choose from. It intuitively knows what to eat. You know, if it's got a bellyache, it's gonna go for certain types of things, you know, if it's it's pregnant, it's gonna go for other things, whatever the case is. Um, and there's lots of nutritional value in there, right? So you're gonna reap all the benefits of of its diet. But while it's out there the last three months, um our farmer literally goes out there and hand feeds them um a ration amount of grain, right? It's not forest fed to them, it's free choice. And that makes, to me, that makes all the difference in the world in the final product. I mean, 100% grass-fed beef. I didn't grow up eating beef like that. It's not my personal favorite. It has a particular flavor to it. But I think, in in my opinion, you know, the fat is where all the flavors at. And if you're, you know, if you're if you're doing that correctly and you're timing it right, it makes such a difference on the final product, you know. And it's it's a tricky business. It's not, it's not just cut and dry. I mean, there's a lot of factors that go into how the animal marbles out, you know, like when you're feeding and the time of year, um, all those things, genetics. And uh, I think our farmers do an incredible job of doing that. Um, so you know, we that it doesn't stop there. I mean, we want to respect the animal and all of that effort that the farmer put into it. So, you know, it's very important how that animal spends its its last day at the processing facility. You know, there's a humane way to do things and there's an inhumane way to do things. So that's very important because that can have a a very uh detrimental effect on the quality of the meat. You know, if the animal is under stress, if it's dehydrated, um, if it's not a clean, fast kill, you know, all these things can happen, you know, like the animal can be flooded with hormones and it it its life ends and it if it affects the meat, and that just doesn't change. Like that's that's what it is from that point on. You know, you know, there's a lot of things that happen happen do have to happen before we get the sides of of pork and beef and and these whole chickens that we're getting. Um we feel like we have um a responsibility to not waste anything, you know. Um, so that means skin on the pig. Um we get we turn into pork rinds, you know, all the all the bones we we utilize as much as we possibly can to make stocks and drinking broths. Um and the fats too, you know, the fats are great. I mean, they all serve different purposes, they all have different smoke points, so they have different cooking applications. And, you know, you you don't get as much return, if any, on some of those things, but the point is we're we don't want to be wasteful, right? There's there's always gonna be a certain amount of waste, but we do the best we can to utilize everything, you know, and and that's what's really forced us to evolve as a business and try to come up with better ways to to utilize the waste, quote unquote, or you know, the things that aren't like you know what people are gravitating towards, you know, the obvious things that are the rock stars in the case and people, you know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

You're introducing customers to these new things that that they wouldn't know. So like is there a certain thing that you guys make in house that people might be surprised about or maybe haven't tried yet? Like anything that is really cool that you're using from some of that extra stuff that you haven't in the past?

SPEAKER_02 36:11

Yeah, I mean, like a good example of that, like in the beginning when we were in our previous space and the first few years were open, you know, you couldn't give away organ meat. Um, it was always a challenge of like what are we gonna do with this? Um, but like I said, over the years you're forced to come up with ways to to utilize it, whether it's profitable or not. I mean, you know, sometimes it is, sometimes it's not. But um, you know, we've made pastrami out of a heart and tongue, like beef heart and tongue pastrami. And um beef tongue is delicious, it's it's super good. And and turning it into pastrami, I think, is is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

I had a lot of tacos um from a couple of these Mexican grocery stores and gas stations. The Langua tacos are like the most amazing tacos. And then they told me it was beef tongue. And then when you call it langua, it sounds like so much sexier than calling it beef tongue. And I was like, oh, whatever, it tastes good. But like introducing a customer to something like that is difficult, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Of course. Yeah, and you know, it is it has helped as people, you know, as people's mindset changes over the years, as we spoke about earlier. Um, you know, people are are very aware now of the nutritional benefits of eating organ meat, you know. I mean, beef liver is probably one of the most nutrient-dense foods you can eat. And um it's it's interesting to see people come to us and they're they're trying, they're like kind of they're at this introductory phase where like, I'm you know, I'm beginning to eat organ meat, like, you know, where where should we start? And I always, you know, like on the scale of you know, intensity and flavor and all that stuff. I mean, chicken liver is one of those livers where it's very mild, um, it comes from a very small animal. Like those are simply best, like you can you know, bread them and fry them, right? And just eat them like that. But if you know, if you go on the opposite end of the spectrum with beef liver, it's huge, right? And it's a very intense flavor. That's not going to be the same experience of breading and frying as chicken liver is, right? So I always tell people to start with, you know, start with chicken liver. Or, you know, if you want to go a different route, we've been making braunschweiger since we've opened. And like I've I was very surprised by how popular it was from the get-go. You know, I I guess there's a you know, there's a pretty strong German, you know, heritage uh in St. Louis. And you know, you get a lot of people saying, Oh, my grandfather used to eat that or whatever, and so did so did mine, and watched my grandpa eat brown schwiger and smear it on crack.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

So you hear it and you see it, and you're like, oh, that's nostalgic. I haven't seen that.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

And I never liked brown schwiger growing up, but then as you know, as an adult and becoming a chef and and making it myself, I I like it now, you know, but it's it's different than what you might have had in the grocery store in the past. But I but I direct people to that because we make our braunschweiger uh with pork liver, and there's there's some beef trimmings in it, and there's warm spices and bacon in it.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

So it's it's definitely more approachable than just you know cutting and slicing beef liver and so that's an interesting thing that you do, and I think like all the lards and all the talos, like introducing customers to that back in 2014 was probably really unique too. And then and then being able to make all the soups and and stuff that you guys do. I mean, the sandwiches and all the all the things that you're trying to use to recreate different things. And um, that's really cool. And I wanted to close up with like some quick rapid fire questions. So, one cut of meat that more people should be cooking with. Is there something that you cook with at home that's unique?

Rapid Fire Favorites

SPEAKER_02 39:31

I mean, you talked about some of them with your livers and stuff, but it's tough because like all those lesser-known cuts are like the first to go now. Oh, are they now?

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Because if the people want them and they're cheaper.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Yeah, you turn people onto something.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

What about your kids? What are your kids like that's unique that most other like you talk to other parents and you're like, Yeah, my kids are eating this. And they're like, What? Your kids are eating that, you know. Because I'm sure you get to introduce your kids to a lot of stuff too.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah. Um that's that's tricky. Because my my older, my, my oldest daughter, she's she's way more adventurous. You know, it's the little ones that you gotta coax into uh and into and call it different names.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yeah, exactly. I was feeding my two-year-old everything's chicken, and it's salmon's chicken, cod's chicken. Anything that looks like cut up, I'm like, oh, it's chicken. She's like, I need ketchup. So then she's dipping everything and ketchup. I'm like, whatever, I don't even care.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

So we uh well we make we make a once in a while, we make a blend um that we call a primal blend, and it's got beef, um, beef heart, so beef trimmings, beef heart, and beef liver. And it's a good way to get organ meat in it, you know, into your diet without directly consuming those those organs, right? Yeah. Um, and you know, we've made tacos out of it at home and give it to our kids, and they wouldn't know that they're eating you know, heart and liver. Super nutritionally dead. Exactly. Um, I think that's a good, you know, that's a good example of kind of sneaking things in that your kids will eat.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Um what about your favorite thing on your lunch menu?

SPEAKER_02 40:59

Right now, it's the Korean fried chicken sandwich. Yes. It's uh super good.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Is that like the kimchi slaw on it? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

So it's um, so we make kimchi in a house.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

We've we've done that since we're gonna be able to do Johnson brought one back the other day when he went and shot one.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

It was really so there's a little bit of the the kimchi that we make with with like the like the juice from the kimchi from the fermentation process, and then we incorporate that with um some carrots, some daikon radish, uh some cabbage, and we season it up further so um it, you know, it has like a fermenty, kind of spicy element to it. And then we um we start with a a koopy mayonnaise, which is a Japanese style mayonnaise as the base, and then we fold some some gochi chang uh paste into that. Yeah. And then we bread uh boneless chicken thighs, deep rhyme and tallow, and then we toss them in um kind of a sweet and spicy glaze um that has more gochi chang in it and and soy and there's some sugar in there. So it's like you know, it's like sticky, sweet, spicy, crunchy. Um did you come up with that one or one of your I did not know that that was all um Eric Shrimp, who's uh been working for us for a long time. Um he leads to the mind with that and he's like, yeah, well, yeah, he he leads the stadium for us. Um he's at all the soccer games, and um, he's been in the kitchen. He he's worked, he he worked for us at the original shop, left, uh, was a barista for a long time at Sump, and then he came to work for us a few years ago at the new shop, and that was kind of his brainchild. You know, him and I were like bouncing off ideas back and forth, and we kind of started going that direction. So I mean it was it was his his idea really.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

It's cool to get to like have the guys and the team like come up with stuff. So absolutely when you're out. I know you got four children, so it's hard to go out, but when you do get a night out, is there a spurt certain restaurant that you really love to go to or a couple that if I don't know how many dates you guys go on, but like not enough. So date night, is there a certain restaurant that you know that you're like, hey, it's anniversary or it's we had a big win in our business, or just something where all four kids are got a babysitter and you're like, okay, we can go out tonight. Is there a certain one that sticks out to your mind of like man? I uh or two or three. I know you want to shout out a lot of your friends.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

So no, it's it's really, I mean, there's so many places that we haven't gotten a you know had a chance to go to. Yeah. Um, you know, if it's rare that we or what about one you want to try that you haven't. Yeah, that's probably a better question, really. Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, well, I guess a couple that we've we've been to in the past that we've had great experiences. The uh The Lucky Accomplice, um Little Fox, incredible experience. Yeah, they're great. What's the uh I'm blanking on the name here? Um probably not is it um we have uh uh one of our staff members who works there currently and we're blanking on the name. It's is it Mainlander?

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Yeah, Mainlander. Yeah, and the Juju B N is like a really

SPEAKER_02 44:00

fancy you know you know that's that's definitely that's definitely on the on the list I know it's hard to get into but I've heard amazing things from about that place um yeah I'd say that's probably on the top of the list of places we're gonna do your kids have like a favorite spot like a favorite local spot that they want you to bring them home yeah like when you're coming back from Maplewood they're like hey bring me home this on the way um not necess not necessarily in Maplewood yeah um we there's a there's a little tie place up the street from us we live in South County and um it's actually it's called tie table yeah yeah and um it's great I mean it's definitely like on the heavy rotation you know yeah um they also J Peterie in South County is is really good yeah um you know that's one that we'll frequent or like the kids ask for yeah it's really good it's it's super good yeah um Thai food's great too I love that your kids love Thai food curry just anything I mean pot stickers any like all that stuff is just amazing and then grilling or smoking grilling for sure grilling always yeah that's just a personal preference you know like I've I've never been a huge fan of lots of smoke I'm not a big barbecue guy I do I do use smoke in cooking but I think it's better used in like small amounts you know in subtle places to add flavor to certain things yeah yeah um so I'm I'm a much bigger fan of of grilling over live fire because you're gonna get some smoke element to that you know especially if you're using wood you know in in any in any form so live fire grilling or charcoal wood exactly yeah that's that's what I prefer I feel like charcoal is a lot I mean I know Jonathan that owns Rockwood and and uh I feel like I go to my friend's houses and everybody has the blackstones and the electrical dude charcoal is just I have the Weber outside you know in the driveway and it's like dude the charcoal grill is is a lost art I feel like or iconic Weber.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I remember using the little mini one you know when I had a little apartment and and stuff like that. The boys had a Weber his charcoal charcoal's really good. I know you sell his stuff up there too but you mentioned live fire so like when you go to do these events sometimes like you'll have a live fire cooking and oh yeah absolutely I mean that's that's my favorite way to cook a hog.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

I mean we do we cater hog roasts and um you know we do more of those in the warmer months of course yeah but um if I'm able to do it I have I have this asado rig that um shout out to Dave Blum at Such and Such farm he he built it himself he's a welder and he welded this thing and I got it from him and it's just it's just an amazing like piece of equipment that he built himself I got built the most crazy stuff out of it. And I've only got to use it a couple of times because you know you have to be in a place where someone doesn't care if you're you know you basically have to create two big fires so you're burning patches of grass and the you know it's it's a messy thing because it's literally you know a pig that's leaning over a fire so it's gonna be dripping off you know yeah it creates a little bit of a mess but it's also such a spectacle yeah you know it's it's you're literally cooking with fire. It's it's uh that's sick.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

It's a really cool way I went out to his farm a couple of times for a couple dinners and like that whole space is just so sick out there of what they do. Did you ever do a dinner out there I did yeah you did one yeah I went to one of I think Kevin did one out there. Couple I I forgot I mean he's done so many out there Elliot over at Scouts um they did one out there and I went to that support him Elliot's a childhood friend of mine. But yeah I'm a grilling guy too for one for one of two reasons I'm not patient enough for the the smoking element of it and then also grilling is just you know just something nostalgic that I grew up with and I I agree and I do have the blackstone so I'll cook some stuff on the blackstone which is which is use I'd sick I love the blackstone and especially for kid breakfast in the morning on Saturdays it's amazing. And then my last question just to wrap up this is probably pretty hard to answer but like you've worked in fine dining you've worked it so I kind of bid like what was the harder job of like the harder mentally harder taxing of like working in what you do now. So like almost like comparing like fine dining Sydney Street to like I guess it's hard because you're owning the business. So that's where the hard part is because you would say this one's harder because but like if you just looked at the two jobs themselves like as far as mentally taxing like what one's harder because I know that there's you know fine dining is a tough place to work but so also such an exciting and rewarding place too and so is butchery. Yeah.

Fine Dining vs. Owning a Business

SPEAKER_02 48:18

I mean yeah fine dining is difficult because the just like the level of food and and trying to execute that on a daily basis um can be very taxing, you know, be because it requires a lot of time and effort to produce that kind of food. And that definitely wears on you. You know um I I it's I definitely think it's a it's a young man's game and you have to if you want to you really have to like give all of yourself to it and and commit to it and really that's got to be your focus. So I mean it it can be very physically demanding and obviously mentally demanding too but I think out of the two I would say owning a business is I think a lot harder. I mean because you you you know for me like I still crave the the creative side of things and like doing the technical work. You know I I've always loved working with my hands and I always will I mean that's where I excel and that's that's just what fills me right fills me up. But when you incorporate the business side of it and man you know and managing people and all those things that go into um owning a small business I think that's harder. It really is. But it but at the same time it can be it's it it it is it's more rewarding you know it's it's more rewarding than you know working for somebody else and and doing that. I mean for me it's just been like an evolution and you know a stepping stone type shit.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

You have to take like all the but you mentioned like that that's the same as me. Like I started out as a creative and now it's like now we manage people and it's like that's what drains energy sometimes from me when like this is what I love to do is like put together videos, put together you know podcasts, like all these things but then like my phone's buzzing right now the second we turn this mic off then I'm gonna jump into other stuff and I'm gonna forget all about what this cool thing that we just did. And that's you're gonna go right back down the street and get right back into it. So then but then I look at the other sides of like the rewarding part of like building real things in real life in a world of AI and a world of computers it's like you're putting out a real product in the world and that's like something that I'm jealous of like that's something we can't do as a social media media company. It's like we can put stuff into the world but it's all on our phones and it's not real. So like building this studio is something real that we're proud of and stuff like that. But but yeah that was a stupid question because yeah it's way harder to work in your own business. But I meant just the day to day and then that was like the one thing I always ask people like if you could do one job in your business every day if you had to if like somebody woke up and you're like you have to do the same job in your business every day would that just be the butcher shop or like working in the back and and it would be it would probably be a combination of both.

SPEAKER_02 51:03

Yeah yeah

Outro

SPEAKER_02 51:04

it would absolutely like if yeah yeah if I had the the choice it would be spend half my time in the cut room and half my time in the kitchen.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Yeah um yeah so that's the goal is just get get to that point. So but Chris I appreciate you for coming on man thanks for taking the time. Thanks for having me see you guys next week. St. Louis thanks for listening everything we do here is about telling the story of this city and that doesn't stop with this show. On the Bucketlist Podcast Network we're diving even deeper into the people places and moments that make this city what it is. Meet Me in Music with Neil Salc captures the sound of the city past and present ending each episode with a live performance. For my Foodie lovers, the sauce with Lauren Healy brings you inside the restaurants that define our culture every Tuesday. Gateway to Growth with Jamal Cornelius highlights the stories behind the people that make St. Louis work and every Thursday Bryce breaks down your weekend with this week in St. Louis more stories, more voices. Explore the full bucket list podcast network wherever you listen.